‘Europe needs to be less dependent on China’ says Netherlands’ Defence Minister

In an exclusive interview with India Today Global, Netherlands’ Defence Minister, Ruben Brekelmans highlights the potential for deeper collaboration in maritime industries, drone technology, and semiconductor production. He discusses Europe’s evolving security landscape amid the Russia-Ukraine war, the Netherlands’ role in NATO, and the need for Europe to strengthen its strategic autonomy. Addressing shifting global alliances, he emphasised India’s growing role as a defence and economic partner, underscoring shared democratic values and mutual strategic interests.

Question: New Delhi is today a diplomatic and geostrategic hub. Many ministers coming from across the world, particularly from Europe, are being joined by the Defence Minister of Netherlands, Minister Ruben Brekelmans. Thank you so much for joining us here on the network. Let’s begin with India-Netherlands Defence Cooperation. What are the expectations? You are to meet the minister as well. Any specifics that the Netherlands is looking at in terms of cooperation with India?

Ruben Brekelmans: I think our industries could do much more together. We both have strong maritime industries where more cooperation could take place. And also we are very strong both in terms of technology. Our semiconductor industry is strong, drone technology, all sorts of innovation, I think, where we can find a lot of synergies because the Netherlands has specific knowledge, specific technology, and India does also have the skill. So if we combine the two, I think there is a lot that we can do together. Second, also our armies, our defense. The Ministry of Defence can also do more, I think in terms of exercises, in terms of exchanging people, also to further strengthen our ties.

Question: Right, In terms of technology, AI, drones, there is a lot that the Netherlands has to offer. Are you looking at combining that with making India, making India, where manufacturing can happen in India, but the technology comes from the Netherlands?

Ruben Brekelmans: We need to find and I think explore those opportunities, because in the Netherlands, we are relatively small. So if we want to scale up our industries, I think we can use, indeed, the production power and the production facilities of India. But we need to find those opportunities. It’s not easy, because we in the Netherlands and in Europe, we also want to strengthen our own defence industries. But still, we need much more military equipment, more ammunition, more drones, more of everything that we can produce ourselves. So I think there are great opportunities there.

Question: The Netherlands is now, and the whole of Europe actually, is now faced with a very dire situation with the Russia-Ukraine war. How vulnerable do you think Europe is today after the Trump administration has made its decision very clear on how much of support it’s willing to extend to Ukraine?

Ruben Brekelmans: I think at this point we are able to defend ourselves and to deter future Russian aggression. But we need to invest in our defence capabilities. I’m worried about, If there is a ceasefire or a peace agreement in Ukraine, then Russia would maybe be able to deploy, redeploy its troops also to other parts of Europe and to other parts of the NATO border. And then, in such a scenario, which is not unthinkable, we need to make sure that we have our defence and deterrence in order. We know that the United States is still committed to NATO and still committed to European security. But they also said that European countries need to step up and need to do much more. And that is the responsibility that we have now. We need to spend more. We need to invest more. And we need to produce more. And we need to do it quickly.

Question: Okay. But in terms of changing dynamics and changing geopolitics, with President Trump in power, how is the Netherlands looking at the future of Europe, where the race is for minerals, critical minerals in Ukraine, and Europe stands to maybe lose a lot in the strategic game of who wins critical resources in Ukraine.

Ruben Brekelmans: Well, we as European countries, we need to become a geopolitical actor ourselves, and it means that we need to have more military power. We need to have more economic power. And it also means that we need to strengthen our autonomy, our strategic autonomy, and when it comes to critical raw materials, for example, we know that we are too dependent on China at this point both in terms of mining and in terms of processing. so we should be much more active doing more mining ourselves more processing ourselves but also work together with other partners, for example like India. I think India has the knowledge, has the skill, has the industry to play a much bigger role in this and also to help us to become less dependent on China. I think that is very important.

Question: Also less dependent on America when it comes to your security, Europe’s security in NATO. Is that also something that your country is looking at?

Ruben Brekelmans: Sure. The United States has said that European countries should take more responsibility for their own security. And I think they are right. That call is right. Also they are pushing us to do this quickly and I think that is fine because we need to step up. We need to do more ourselves. Also if you look at some of these strategic capabilities, we are at this point, we are fully dependent on the United States and we should create a roadmap with them together to see how we can over time take over more of those strategic capabilities. But We need to make sure that there is always this foundation of the strategic partnership, also the friendship and the alliance between the United States and Europe that has been there for such a long time and it will remain so in the future. But the division of responsibilities will change.

Question: Okay. But is Europe a divided house in this war? Is there a problem when it comes to now Poland saying, asking the United States of America to put nuclear weapons in their country? Hungary not agreeing to a lot of the money that Europe wants to fight the war in Ukraine. Is it a divided house and what’s your take on Poland asking for nuclear weapons to be placed in Poland?

Ruben Brekelmans: I think we are united. I think we are more united than ever as Europe. Of course we have many countries with different backgrounds, different histories, also different outlooks when it comes to security. But so far I think we have been able to unify ourselves. We know that Hungary is an outlier. We need to work around this sometimes. I think we need to work with Coalition of the Willing as well as we are doing now because it’s sometimes difficult to agree with 27 countries or with 32 countries when it comes to NATO. So to work with this Coalition of the Willing as we are doing right now, I think it can make us more effective. And when it comes to nuclear power, I think it’s good that we are starting this discussion in Europe because myself, I’m from a generation who did not experience the Cold War. I experienced 9-11. I experienced terrorist attacks in the Netherlands, for example, and also in other parts of Europe. And you don’t need nuclear weapons to fight against terrorists. So this whole discussion, I think, has not taken place for 20 years now or even longer. So it’s good that we are starting up this discussion. Maybe the UK, maybe France could play a bigger role when it comes to nuclear deterrence. But I think in the end we will always need the nuclear umbrella from the United States because they could not take over this position from the United States. We can all play a role in this. Netherlands, for example, our F-35 fighter jets, we were the first ones in Europe who made our fighter jets nuclear capable. So we also play a role in this also in creating our nuclear deterrence also in the future.

Question: Okay. Before I let you go, because you mentioned F-35s, America always threatens Europe that they will turn the tap off on the F-35s. Is that a real threat and should Europe look at alternatives?

Ruben Brekelmans: We have been part of the F-35 program for over 20 years. We invested a lot in it. Also, we, of course, trained all our pilots, our engineers on the F-35s. So we cannot transition away from the F-35s easily. That would be a huge investment, and we are not considering to do that. Also, it’s also the other way around. So we also, as Netherlands, we produce some of the parts of the F-35s that are essential. So it’s a program in which we are mutually dependent on each other. So far, I have seen a clear commitment from the United States. I do not have any sign that they are not willing to take their responsibilities when it comes to the F-35 program. So I am confident that it will be solid also in the future.

Question: I know we have completely run out of time, Minister Brekelmans. Thank you so much for joining us. But before you go, your final take on a world full of conflicts. How do you look at a world where you have the Russia-Ukraine war, the Israel-Hamas war? Riddle with conflict and the role that the Netherlands can play?

Ruben Brekelmans: I think in a world full of conflict and also full of aggression, we need to make sure that our own country and Europe stays, that we will have freedom and security in Europe. Of course, that’s our first priority. But second, we need to make sure that we work together with partners who share the same values and share the same interests. And India, biggest democracy in the world, a growing economy, we share the same values and principles when it comes to democracy. And we share the same interests when it comes to trade and to economic investment. So I think there’s a lot that we can do together. That’s why I’m here today. And that’s why I’m looking forward also to further strengthening those relations.